Discussion:
Pike traces
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Gandalf
2007-11-07 00:16:19 UTC
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Hi all

Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all out
there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the basic costs
( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a position where you
feel obliged to buy ).

I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed odd
as a premade trace is only £2.75.

So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please.

The reason is my son wanted to have a go at pike fishing and he only fishes
once every other year. Anyway to cut a long story short he hooked into 4.
Lost the first one at the net, landed number 2 on a dead bait but only about
7 lbs so not massive. Number 3 was larger and snagged him up before he got
control but number 4 was the real gem. As he had been snagged he had broken
off above the float so I attached a plug I have had for longer than he has
been alive, a plug I had no success with at all I will add. I used the plug
to retrieve the bung and release the line to rot as I could not retrieve it
but my son fancied having a go a plug fishing. I gave it a couple of good
runs to show him how to do it and test the swim then went for a sit down and
watch my feeder rod.

Well no sooner had I hit the chair with my bum than he is shouting, seems
first cast and he has one on and we land it. Jammy little sod was grinning
like a Cheshire cat.

So I am going to do some pike fishing now as I have to do something to shut
the little sod up, a trait he gets from his mother I will add.<VBG>
--
Gandalf
Derek Moody
2007-11-07 07:49:06 UTC
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Post by Gandalf
Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all out
there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the basic costs
I never have trusted commercial pike traces.

I'm still using a couple of bulk spools of monel I bought when I was about
15 ... I reckon the 14lb test will run out and have to be replaced within a
decade but the 20lb spool should see me out.
Post by Gandalf
( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a position where you
feel obliged to buy ).
I hate that sort of store. Are there no others within reach?
Post by Gandalf
I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed odd
as a premade trace is only £2.75.
It's *much* cheaper to buy hooks by the box - 1000 commercial long line
hooks for under 50ukp I noticed when I was in a *commercial* (not yachty)
chandler the other day. I have the remains of a 25 box of #2 trebles here
with a 3.75 ukp price sticker still on it...

While you're at it consider switching to single large circle hooks for
live/deadbaiting - once I've finished the current boxes of trebles I don't
think I'll be buying more for trace making (I'll carry on with trebles on
lures though.) I'll be looking for 100's circles rsn - the chandler above
had 1000 stainless 7/0 circle hooks for 75ukp but that's both a little large
and too many for me atm - it suggests a guide of around 6-8ukp/100 for
plain steel circles a couple of sizes smaller - and I don't use stainless
hooks anywhere where lost hooks might endanger those who come after. If I
lose it I want it to rust away.
Post by Gandalf
So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please.
Gems? Not sure, this is what I do:

I use solid monel. You might like to look out for soft 'knottable' wire - a
chum swears by it but I don't like it for multi-hook rigs. With monel I
make a haywire twist. Beware, cut monel has a chisel end and unless turned
away shreds fingers.

(view this in a fixed width fount)
__
(__>\\\\-\-\-\-\-------
close open

Make a loop, trapping hook eye, split ring, swivel or whatever is required.
Make 4 close turns followed by 4 open turns - that's all you need.
To make up a multi hook trace with eyed trebles just pass the wire once
through the eye - at the waterside position the hook to suit the bait and
then wrap the wire round the shank 4 times. (Eyeless trebles need whipping
with fine wire, or kevlar and varnish.)

For flyfishing you need a rigid hook connection so thread the wire through
the eye of the hook, take it around the end of the weld and back through the
eye going the other way, twist as before. Dress the fly after wiring.

Do not let monel kink. (Other way to 'cut' monel - make single twist kink,
pull hard, open kink, pull wire apart with bare hands. This leaves the
other sort of nasty, sharp, sticking up, point.)

Hth, cheerio,
--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page:
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/
Gandalf
2007-11-10 23:36:01 UTC
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Hi Derek,

Been looking at it and will make my own I think. I had yet another trip and
a bag full of bream to 4.5 lbs but now I have the method down so well I can
do it almost every time it is getting boring so I am going to try and get a
few pike for a few weeks. I am sure there are a few good ones in there even
though it a relatively small lake plus I do have access to larger lake
renown for its large pike.

Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval
if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on
things around me.

Got caught in one hell of a storm Thursday as well, heavy rain and high
winds for nearly an hour. All I could do was sit there and hold the brollie
like a lance into the wind while it bent and the rain was driven under it
into my face. I must be getting old as I hated that.
--
Gandalf
Post by Derek Moody
Post by Gandalf
Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all out
there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the basic costs
I never have trusted commercial pike traces.
I'm still using a couple of bulk spools of monel I bought when I was about
15 ... I reckon the 14lb test will run out and have to be replaced within a
decade but the 20lb spool should see me out.
Post by Gandalf
( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a position where you
feel obliged to buy ).
I hate that sort of store. Are there no others within reach?
Post by Gandalf
I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed odd
as a premade trace is only £2.75.
It's *much* cheaper to buy hooks by the box - 1000 commercial long line
hooks for under 50ukp I noticed when I was in a *commercial* (not yachty)
chandler the other day. I have the remains of a 25 box of #2 trebles here
with a 3.75 ukp price sticker still on it...
While you're at it consider switching to single large circle hooks for
live/deadbaiting - once I've finished the current boxes of trebles I don't
think I'll be buying more for trace making (I'll carry on with trebles on
lures though.) I'll be looking for 100's circles rsn - the chandler above
had 1000 stainless 7/0 circle hooks for 75ukp but that's both a little large
and too many for me atm - it suggests a guide of around 6-8ukp/100 for
plain steel circles a couple of sizes smaller - and I don't use stainless
hooks anywhere where lost hooks might endanger those who come after. If I
lose it I want it to rust away.
Post by Gandalf
So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please.
I use solid monel. You might like to look out for soft 'knottable' wire - a
chum swears by it but I don't like it for multi-hook rigs. With monel I
make a haywire twist. Beware, cut monel has a chisel end and unless turned
away shreds fingers.
(view this in a fixed width fount)
__
(__>\\\\-\-\-\-\-------
close open
Make a loop, trapping hook eye, split ring, swivel or whatever is required.
Make 4 close turns followed by 4 open turns - that's all you need.
To make up a multi hook trace with eyed trebles just pass the wire once
through the eye - at the waterside position the hook to suit the bait and
then wrap the wire round the shank 4 times. (Eyeless trebles need whipping
with fine wire, or kevlar and varnish.)
For flyfishing you need a rigid hook connection so thread the wire through
the eye of the hook, take it around the end of the weld and back through the
eye going the other way, twist as before. Dress the fly after wiring.
Do not let monel kink. (Other way to 'cut' monel - make single twist kink,
pull hard, open kink, pull wire apart with bare hands. This leaves the
other sort of nasty, sharp, sticking up, point.)
Hth, cheerio,
--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/
Will Wilkinson
2007-11-11 01:04:19 UTC
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Post by Gandalf
Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval
if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on
things around me.
IMO Circle hooks are the way to go for many (possibly most) bait fishing
for predators. They're basically a large single with a pronounced circle
shape to the bend - the point is aimed at the shank around 1/3 of the
way between the eye and the start of the bend.

I've been reading up on them for a while and am now trialling circles
for Perch and will also be using them for Pike later in the winter. They
greatly reduce deep hooking and ease hook removal - 95+% of fish are
hooked in the scissors. One point to make is that you don't need to
strike as such - just tighten/lift into the fish after a take. A
conventional strike simply pulls the hook out of the fishes mouth, a
much slower action is required to set the circles.

They're not to easy to come by on this side of the pond, a few tackle
shops stock a limited selection, try fly tying suppliers if you find
them difficult to source or order from the US where they're much more
commonly used.

Will
--
e-mail news dot will at lancre dot net
'98 300Tdi Defender 110 CSW, 1/12th NB Sometimes
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Gandalf
2007-11-11 14:35:50 UTC
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Hi Will,

Many thanks for the heads up on that. I did a search myself and found one
place that sells them mail order. Link below although I am sure you already
know of it.

http://www.reelfishing.co.uk/Sakuma_Circle_hooks.html#a1785

I totally missed the concept of hook shape and sort of went for the multiple
hook idea after seeing something about it a few months ago,I have to admit I
should have realised I had it wrong as Derek would never support the idea of
multiple hooks.

I also found a site explaining the science behind the circle hook, very
interesting.
--
Gandalf
Post by Will Wilkinson
Post by Gandalf
Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval
if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on
things around me.
IMO Circle hooks are the way to go for many (possibly most) bait fishing
for predators. They're basically a large single with a pronounced circle
shape to the bend - the point is aimed at the shank around 1/3 of the way
between the eye and the start of the bend.
I've been reading up on them for a while and am now trialling circles for
Perch and will also be using them for Pike later in the winter. They
greatly reduce deep hooking and ease hook removal - 95+% of fish are
hooked in the scissors. One point to make is that you don't need to strike
as such - just tighten/lift into the fish after a take. A conventional
strike simply pulls the hook out of the fishes mouth, a much slower action
is required to set the circles.
They're not to easy to come by on this side of the pond, a few tackle
shops stock a limited selection, try fly tying suppliers if you find them
difficult to source or order from the US where they're much more commonly
used.
Will
--
e-mail news dot will at lancre dot net
'98 300Tdi Defender 110 CSW, 1/12th NB Sometimes
PGP Fingerprint E089 1736 A023 9E5C AFA3 0B40 E5DC D80A 9E1F D521
Public key can be obtained from ldap://certserver.pgp.com
Derek Moody
2007-11-11 19:21:49 UTC
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Post by Gandalf
Hi Will,
Many thanks for the heads up on that. I did a search myself and found one
place that sells them mail order. Link below although I am sure you already
know of it.
http://www.reelfishing.co.uk/Sakuma_Circle_hooks.html#a1785
Hmmm. 2.50 odd ukp for ten, probably OK for experiments but I'd hope for a
better price in bulk.
Post by Gandalf
I totally missed the concept of hook shape and sort of went for the multiple
hook idea after seeing something about it a few months ago,I have to admit I
should have realised I had it wrong as Derek would never support the idea of
multiple hooks.
Oh, I'm perfectly happy with multiple hooks where appropriate. Pennels,
tandem lures, even nylon snap tackles for saltwater bassing in some
circumstances 'though those too will probably go to circles.
Post by Gandalf
I also found a site explaining the science behind the circle hook, very
interesting.
A bit counter intuitive - it doesn't work with everything so good old hook
shaped hooks will be around for a long time yet.

Cheerio,
--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page:
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/
Derek Moody
2007-11-11 19:12:56 UTC
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Post by Gandalf
Hi Derek,
Been looking at it and will make my own I think. I had yet another trip and
a bag full of bream to 4.5 lbs but now I have the method down so well I can
do it almost every time it is getting boring so I am going to try and get a
few pike for a few weeks. I am sure there are a few good ones in there even
though it a relatively small lake plus I do have access to larger lake
renown for its large pike.
Just back from a day on the lower Stour - which is in serious need of rain -
4 chub, best two 5 1/2 lb and 4 3/4 lb, half a dozen roach 8 -12 oz each, a
few dace and minnows and a jack pike - but: *everything* took bread
floatfished on #8 hooks tied direct to 4lb reel line...

So belay everything said about wire traces for pike ;-)
Post by Gandalf
Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval
if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on
things around me.
No, circles are a sort of extreme beak single hook.

Cheerio,
--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page:
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/
Gandalf
2007-11-11 21:34:07 UTC
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Going to get the trace kits tomorrow as I am off for a days dedicated pike
fishing on Thursday. I think I will use a smelt or herring rather than bread
though.(;-) Basically I will be buying enough to make 10 traces and spending
£15 and I will not need more than ten traces this winter as pikeing will be
done every other week I think.

I am going to travel light so I can move round giving it half an hour in
each swim. I have seen several pike into double figures in about 5 swims so
I will have.

I have had trout on floating bread before, as a kid we used to float a bit
of crust under the old road bridge in Cricklade. It used to hammer through
and then float in an eddy on the other side where it would be taken by
almost anything that happened to be there. Great fun trying to pull it back
through a mass of water doing 60 miles an hour as well. A 3 lb chub seemed
more like a 20 lb pike.
--
Gandalf
Post by Derek Moody
Post by Gandalf
Hi Derek,
Been looking at it and will make my own I think. I had yet another trip and
a bag full of bream to 4.5 lbs but now I have the method down so well I can
do it almost every time it is getting boring so I am going to try and get a
few pike for a few weeks. I am sure there are a few good ones in there even
though it a relatively small lake plus I do have access to larger lake
renown for its large pike.
Just back from a day on the lower Stour - which is in serious need of rain -
4 chub, best two 5 1/2 lb and 4 3/4 lb, half a dozen roach 8 -12 oz each, a
few dace and minnows and a jack pike - but: *everything* took bread
floatfished on #8 hooks tied direct to 4lb reel line...
So belay everything said about wire traces for pike ;-)
Post by Gandalf
Not heard of this large circle of hooks thing but it sounds a bit medieval
if I take it literally, I have enough trouble not getting a treble hooked on
things around me.
No, circles are a sort of extreme beak single hook.
Cheerio,
--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/
Derek Moody
2007-11-12 06:04:29 UTC
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Post by Gandalf
Going to get the trace kits tomorrow as I am off for a days dedicated pike
fishing on Thursday. I think I will use a smelt or herring rather than bread
though.(;-) Basically I will be buying enough to make 10 traces and spending
£15 and I will not need more than ten traces this winter as pikeing will be
done every other week I think.
Enough to prove your technique and even to experiment a little, good idea.

One trace you can't buy is a weighted sink and draw special - a 1oz bomb on
the end, a strong single about 1" uptrace from it, a couple of trebles
spaced according to the size of bait and an added twist wire loop above that.
The trace needs to be a little longer than the conventional snap. In this
case trebles are still probably best but I may experiment one day.

In use put the bomb in the mouth of your deadbait and stitch the mouth
closed with the single, bring the trace pack along the bait impaling at
strategic points and then tie the wire to the tail with the twist loop.
Cast the bait and it dives head first, wait half a minute, draw back to the
surface and let it dive again .. and again. The action mimics a disabled
but living fish so unlike static deadbaits pike take hard and you can strike
relatively quickly knowing the hooks are in the right place.

Don't use this with herring or mackerel - too soft. Scad, sand smelt or a
dead roach are tougher.
Post by Gandalf
I am going to travel light so I can move round giving it half an hour in
each swim. I have seen several pike into double figures in about 5 swims so
I will have.
The best 'groundbait' for a pike is a keepnet full of silver fish...
Post by Gandalf
Post by Derek Moody
floatfished on #8 hooks tied direct to 4lb reel line...
I have had trout on floating bread before, as a kid we used to float a bit
Sorry, maybe I wasn't too clear: floatfished - ie. under a float, rather
than floating on the surface (though floating crust is a favourite bait
of mine) - in this case a small quill carrying 6bb - a group and one bb as
a telltale. I don't thing anyone else had much, most were sitting at slow,
deep swims and I had all mine in streamy water under 3' deep.
Post by Gandalf
of crust under the old road bridge in Cricklade. It used to hammer through
and then float in an eddy on the other side where it would be taken by
almost anything that happened to be there. Great fun trying to pull it back
through a mass of water doing 60 miles an hour as well. A 3 lb chub seemed
more like a 20 lb pike.
<g>

Cheerio,
--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page:
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/
Gandalf
2007-11-12 11:41:44 UTC
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" One trace you can't buy is a weighted sink and draw special "

Good timing Derek, I was looking at that last night as looking at all the
lures and my past failures lure fishing I was thinking more along sink and
draw with a dead bait. In the old days I used to tie the bait to the trace
at point up the body. I did not do loads of pike fishing back then and did
not give it or lure fishing much of chance going, instead, for static dead
baits under a bung or on a lead. You could say I am a born again piking
virgin really.

With sink and draw I can do both I think just by letting the bait lie for
awhile if my arms start to ache ( due to my damn illness ) so I got the best
of both worlds but I will strike early it is taken on a rest period. I would
rather loose a fish than deep hook it.

I will let you know how it all goes on Thursday
--
Gandalf
Post by Derek Moody
Post by Gandalf
Going to get the trace kits tomorrow as I am off for a days dedicated pike
fishing on Thursday. I think I will use a smelt or herring rather than bread
though.(;-) Basically I will be buying enough to make 10 traces and spending
£15 and I will not need more than ten traces this winter as pikeing will be
done every other week I think.
Enough to prove your technique and even to experiment a little, good idea.
One trace you can't buy is a weighted sink and draw special - a 1oz bomb on
the end, a strong single about 1" uptrace from it, a couple of trebles
spaced according to the size of bait and an added twist wire loop above that.
The trace needs to be a little longer than the conventional snap. In this
case trebles are still probably best but I may experiment one day.
Gandalf
2007-11-13 00:50:40 UTC
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Hi Derek,

Made my first trace tonight,needed magnifying glass to get the trace through
the crimps and did not realise how much force those damn things needed, mind
you I had to use long nose pliers as my normal pliers had a wide nose.

Looks good and I tested the crimp as best I could without problem, well
without problem to the crimp or hooks but not so for my fingers. So clumsy
and blind ten.<VBG>

Just got to test it on some un-expecting pike a couple of days.
--
Gandalf
Post by Derek Moody
Post by Gandalf
Going to get the trace kits tomorrow as I am off for a days dedicated pike
fishing on Thursday. I think I will use a smelt or herring rather than bread
though.(;-) Basically I will be buying enough to make 10 traces and spending
£15 and I will not need more than ten traces this winter as pikeing will be
done every other week I think.
Enough to prove your technique and even to experiment a little, good idea.
One trace you can't buy is a weighted sink and draw special - a 1oz bomb on
the end, a strong single about 1" uptrace from it, a couple of trebles
spaced according to the size of bait and an added twist wire loop above that.
The trace needs to be a little longer than the conventional snap. In this
case trebles are still probably best but I may experiment one day.
In use put the bomb in the mouth of your deadbait and stitch the mouth
closed with the single, bring the trace pack along the bait impaling at
strategic points and then tie the wire to the tail with the twist loop.
Cast the bait and it dives head first, wait half a minute, draw back to the
surface and let it dive again .. and again. The action mimics a disabled
but living fish so unlike static deadbaits pike take hard and you can strike
relatively quickly knowing the hooks are in the right place.
Don't use this with herring or mackerel - too soft. Scad, sand smelt or a
dead roach are tougher.
Post by Gandalf
I am going to travel light so I can move round giving it half an hour in
each swim. I have seen several pike into double figures in about 5 swims so
I will have.
The best 'groundbait' for a pike is a keepnet full of silver fish...
Post by Gandalf
Post by Derek Moody
floatfished on #8 hooks tied direct to 4lb reel line...
I have had trout on floating bread before, as a kid we used to float a bit
Sorry, maybe I wasn't too clear: floatfished - ie. under a float, rather
than floating on the surface (though floating crust is a favourite bait
of mine) - in this case a small quill carrying 6bb - a group and one bb as
a telltale. I don't thing anyone else had much, most were sitting at slow,
deep swims and I had all mine in streamy water under 3' deep.
Post by Gandalf
of crust under the old road bridge in Cricklade. It used to hammer through
and then float in an eddy on the other side where it would be taken by
almost anything that happened to be there. Great fun trying to pull it back
through a mass of water doing 60 miles an hour as well. A 3 lb chub seemed
more like a 20 lb pike.
<g>
Cheerio,
--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/
John Fox
2008-01-06 11:50:06 UTC
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I make my own traces, very easy.
Just buy a length of wire trace and put swivel and snap links on.


John Fox
Post by Gandalf
Hi all
Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all out
there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the basic costs
( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a position where you
feel obliged to buy ).
I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed odd
as a premade trace is only £2.75.
So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please.
The reason is my son wanted to have a go at pike fishing and he only fishes
once every other year. Anyway to cut a long story short he hooked into 4.
Lost the first one at the net, landed number 2 on a dead bait but only about
7 lbs so not massive. Number 3 was larger and snagged him up before he got
control but number 4 was the real gem. As he had been snagged he had broken
off above the float so I attached a plug I have had for longer than he has
been alive, a plug I had no success with at all I will add. I used the plug
to retrieve the bung and release the line to rot as I could not retrieve it
but my son fancied having a go a plug fishing. I gave it a couple of good
runs to show him how to do it and test the swim then went for a sit down and
watch my feeder rod.
Well no sooner had I hit the chair with my bum than he is shouting, seems
first cast and he has one on and we land it. Jammy little sod was grinning
like a Cheshire cat.
So I am going to do some pike fishing now as I have to do something to shut
the little sod up, a trait he gets from his mother I will add.<VBG>
Gandalf
2008-01-06 15:20:07 UTC
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Raw Message
Now I have done it I agree and I have had the strength of the crimps tested
as well just not a big fish yet. Soon will though.<VBG>
--
Gandalf
Post by John Fox
I make my own traces, very easy.
Just buy a length of wire trace and put swivel and snap links on.
John Fox
Post by Gandalf
Hi all
Anyone got any idea on making your own pike traces. It seems it is all
out there to buy but has anyone done it and can they let me know the
basic costs ( I can not browse my local angling store so you get in a
position where you feel obliged to buy ).
I did note the trebles seems expensive at nearly £5 a pair which seemed
odd as a premade trace is only £2.75.
So any gems of wisdom would be greatly appreciated please.
The reason is my son wanted to have a go at pike fishing and he only
fishes once every other year. Anyway to cut a long story short he hooked
into 4. Lost the first one at the net, landed number 2 on a dead bait but
only about 7 lbs so not massive. Number 3 was larger and snagged him up
before he got control but number 4 was the real gem. As he had been
snagged he had broken off above the float so I attached a plug I have had
for longer than he has been alive, a plug I had no success with at all I
will add. I used the plug to retrieve the bung and release the line to
rot as I could not retrieve it but my son fancied having a go a plug
fishing. I gave it a couple of good runs to show him how to do it and
test the swim then went for a sit down and watch my feeder rod.
Well no sooner had I hit the chair with my bum than he is shouting, seems
first cast and he has one on and we land it. Jammy little sod was
grinning like a Cheshire cat.
So I am going to do some pike fishing now as I have to do something to
shut the little sod up, a trait he gets from his mother I will add.<VBG>
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