Death rigs

[Gandalf]

A silly question I think but what the hell are death rigs. I know some
people seem to think it is dangerous to the fish but where has this come
from and who as it makes no sense to me.

I was looking for more details on my loop rig that I know was so popular
just as I stopped fishing back in the late 70's.

More importantly am I likely to find my local waters have some sort of ban
on such rigs, I would have thought not but better check with the people who
will know.

[Ian Hooksem]

Death rigs - usually associated with carp fishing, when the aim is to
catch and release,and not cause harm to fish.
The opposite to death rig, is known as a 'safe rig', which most
fisheries demand.
Essentially - if your mainline snaps it is probably ok for a fish to
escape with the hook and a lenght of line attached to it; it is believed
the fish will come to no harm until it eventually ejects the hook, or it
rusts. But if a weight is attached to that same hooklength, it will drag
and get tangled around obstacles - thus tethering the fish and causing
its death.
There are loads of 'safe rigs' in use

Do some detective work on google for safe rigs. You will see a number of
companies charge oodles of money for their particular accessory's, but
these are not necessary unless you want the convenience. Wade throught
he ads to find some really good sites on rig making. Here is one for
example -

http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=73294

Re loop rigs - again search for SAFE loop rig
Ian

Post by Gandalf
A silly question I think but what the hell are death rigs. I know some
people seem to think it is dangerous to the fish but where has this come
from and who as it makes no sense to me.
I was looking for more details on my loop rig that I know was so popular
just as I stopped fishing back in the late 70's.
More importantly am I likely to find my local waters have some sort of ban
on such rigs, I would have thought not but better check with the people who
will know.

[The Midnight Rider]

Post by Ian Hooksem
Death rigs - usually associated with carp fishing, when the aim is to
catch and release,and not cause harm to fish.
The opposite to death rig, is known as a 'safe rig', which most fisheries
demand.
Essentially - if your mainline snaps it is probably ok for a fish to
escape with the hook and a lenght of line attached to it; it is believed
the fish will come to no harm until it eventually ejects the hook, or it
rusts. But if a weight is attached to that same hooklength, it will drag
and get tangled around obstacles - thus tethering the fish and causing its
death.
There are loads of 'safe rigs' in use
Do some detective work on google for safe rigs. You will see a number of
companies charge oodles of money for their particular accessory's, but
these are not necessary unless you want the convenience. Wade throught he
ads to find some really good sites on rig making. Here is one for
example -
http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=73294

There is of course 1 simple way to make a safe rig, always ensure that the
hook length is of a smaller strain than the length holding the weight, and
the mainline, thus ensuring that a break leaves only a hook and small tail
in site.
If you happen to catch 1 sporting a hook please remove it as well as your
own before releasing.

tight lines.

[Gandalf]

Which was my next question as I always use a hook length lighter than the
main line unless I am fishing sliding ledger or feeder with the hook direct
to main line. With the loop system I used for the feeder it is perfectly
safe as the method has to use a hook length and there is no sense in using
the same breaking strain line for both.

Thanks for the input there.
--
Gandalf

Post by The Midnight Rider

Post by Ian Hooksem
Death rigs - usually associated with carp fishing, when the aim is to
catch and release,and not cause harm to fish.
The opposite to death rig, is known as a 'safe rig', which most fisheries
demand.
Essentially - if your mainline snaps it is probably ok for a fish to
escape with the hook and a lenght of line attached to it; it is believed
the fish will come to no harm until it eventually ejects the hook, or it
rusts. But if a weight is attached to that same hooklength, it will drag
and get tangled around obstacles - thus tethering the fish and causing
its death.
There are loads of 'safe rigs' in use
Do some detective work on google for safe rigs. You will see a number of
companies charge oodles of money for their particular accessory's, but
these are not necessary unless you want the convenience. Wade throught he
ads to find some really good sites on rig making. Here is one for
example -
http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=73294

There is of course 1 simple way to make a safe rig, always ensure that the
hook length is of a smaller strain than the length holding the weight, and
the mainline, thus ensuring that a break leaves only a hook and small tail
in site.
If you happen to catch 1 sporting a hook please remove it as well as your
own before releasing.
tight lines.

[Gandalf]

Many thanks for that, basically that is what I thought it was. I have always
cared for the fish I catch which is what it is all about I guess.

I liked the link and it seems awfully complex when it comes to carp rigs,
whatever happened to " keep it simple ".<VBG>

I will still use my loop as I do use a lower breaking strain hook length
always, well virtually always and when I tie direct to the main line there
is little else on the line.

I will do some carp fishing this winter though just for the change, I have a
heavy rod set up for larger fish so will alternate it between carp and pike.
--
Gandalf

Post by Ian Hooksem
Death rigs - usually associated with carp fishing, when the aim is to
catch and release,and not cause harm to fish.
The opposite to death rig, is known as a 'safe rig', which most fisheries
demand.
Essentially - if your mainline snaps it is probably ok for a fish to
escape with the hook and a lenght of line attached to it; it is believed
the fish will come to no harm until it eventually ejects the hook, or it
rusts. But if a weight is attached to that same hooklength, it will drag
and get tangled around obstacles - thus tethering the fish and causing its
death.
There are loads of 'safe rigs' in use
Do some detective work on google for safe rigs. You will see a number of
companies charge oodles of money for their particular accessory's, but
these are not necessary unless you want the convenience. Wade throught he
ads to find some really good sites on rig making. Here is one for
example -
http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=73294
Re loop rigs - again search for SAFE loop rig
Ian

Post by Gandalf
A silly question I think but what the hell are death rigs. I know some
people seem to think it is dangerous to the fish but where has this come
from and who as it makes no sense to me.
I was looking for more details on my loop rig that I know was so popular
just as I stopped fishing back in the late 70's.
More importantly am I likely to find my local waters have some sort of
ban on such rigs, I would have thought not but better check with the
people who will know.

[Steve Walker]

Post by Gandalf
I liked the link and it seems awfully complex when it comes to carp rigs,
whatever happened to " keep it simple ".<VBG>

Keeping it simple doesn't sell magazines and terminal tackle...

I've not heard them called "death rigs", by the way, the term I've heard
is "tether rigs". While I would agree that generally a lighter
hooklength means that if the line breaks you'll get the lead and the
fish will get the hook, it's not always as simple as that. If you snag
the weight and snap the main line, you don't want the fish attached to
the snagged weight. In most cases, of course, if the line breaks at all
it will go at the hook knot, in which case it's all academic.

It's more of an issue for carpers because they want to use bolt rigs,
which implies a large fixed lead (or one which can only slide a little
way). A traditional sliding link leger rig is safe. A paternoster,
potentially, isn't. A double loop feeder rig isn't, strictly speaking,
but if it snags and you pull for a break, it's most likely that the loop
will end up opened and the feeder released.

[Richard]

Post by Steve Walker

Post by Gandalf
I liked the link and it seems awfully complex when it comes to carp rigs,
whatever happened to " keep it simple ".<VBG>

Keeping it simple doesn't sell magazines and terminal tackle...
I've not heard them called "death rigs", by the way, the term I've heard
is "tether rigs". While I would agree that generally a lighter hooklength
means that if the line breaks you'll get the lead and the fish will get
the hook, it's not always as simple as that. If you snag the weight and
snap the main line, you don't want the fish attached to the snagged
weight. In most cases, of course, if the line breaks at all it will go at
the hook knot, in which case it's all academic.
It's more of an issue for carpers because they want to use bolt rigs,
which implies a large fixed lead (or one which can only slide a little
way). A traditional sliding link leger rig is safe. A paternoster,
potentially, isn't. A double loop feeder rig isn't, strictly speaking, but
if it snags and you pull for a break, it's most likely that the loop will
end up opened and the feeder released.
--
Steve Walker

Hi Steve,

Semi-fixed bolt rig should work safely. It incorporates a swivel which main
line and hook length join to at opposite ends of the swivel which is (for
example with an inline set-up) located within the body of the weight. The
swivel provides an 'interference fit' with the lead and so frees itself
quite readily. Ime it does this during or shortly after the initial bolt as
it is always free from the lead when you land a fish. However, it is
important to use the same manufacturer for the key parts, namely weight and
swivel. Even though many claim to require a No8 mixing parts often means you
can get a too loose or too tight fit ......... seems there isn't any real
size standard. Anyway, (done properly) the important feature is that if
either the hook link or main line breaks (for whatever reason) the fish is
free of the weight.

BFN ............ Richard

[Steve Walker]

Post by Richard

Post by Steve Walker
It's more of an issue for carpers because they want to use bolt rigs,
which implies a large fixed lead (or one which can only slide a little
way).

Semi-fixed bolt rig should work safely.

They can be made safe. The point I was making was that rig safety became
a big issue first amongst carp anglers largely because some of the most
popular carp rigs had the inherent potential to tether, which had to be
explicitly designed out of them. Not saying that current rigs aren't
safe.

[Gandalf]

I only came across the term Death Rig in looking up loop rigs to put a name
to something I had used way back. I guess that in 20 years of actual fishing
over 40 years I have never actually lost any end tackle to fish other than
the hook length breaking. Most ledger/feeder rigs have returned and never
lost with fish attached ( lost a few in trees and in river weed though ).

I use barbless hooks which will also feature as the fish can slip them easy
with slack line as as happened many times when I first started using
barbless hooks.

I feel safe in using the rigs in that I will not harm a fish through the use
of the loop rig or any rig I employ. I certainly think some of the carp rigs
more likely to damage the fish with the use of braided end tackle, not 100%
sure on this but it seems like the fish could be left with a trailing braid
that could catch on debris on the lake bed. Not a high chance but then none
of these scenarios is probable, just the degree of possibility.

Many thanks for the input.
--
Gandalf

Post by Steve Walker

Post by Gandalf
I liked the link and it seems awfully complex when it comes to carp rigs,
whatever happened to " keep it simple ".<VBG>

Keeping it simple doesn't sell magazines and terminal tackle...
I've not heard them called "death rigs", by the way, the term I've heard
is "tether rigs". While I would agree that generally a lighter hooklength
means that if the line breaks you'll get the lead and the fish will get
the hook, it's not always as simple as that. If you snag the weight and
snap the main line, you don't want the fish attached to the snagged
weight. In most cases, of course, if the line breaks at all it will go at
the hook knot, in which case it's all academic.
It's more of an issue for carpers because they want to use bolt rigs,
which implies a large fixed lead (or one which can only slide a little
way). A traditional sliding link leger rig is safe. A paternoster,
potentially, isn't. A double loop feeder rig isn't, strictly speaking, but
if it snags and you pull for a break, it's most likely that the loop will
end up opened and the feeder released.
--
Steve Walker